We still do not know what that really means. Theres much interesting reading on the Donald MacLeod thread, including this 1988 quote posted Thursday by Malcolm, from Mr James Fraser: his response failed to allay my fears that there was some truth in the allegations. I am all for systemic analysis and the big-picture view. By Thriftbooks.com User, June 15, 2004 This is the greatest study bible that I have seen. I saw it on the Willow Creek Church Facebook page, and posted it here because I know someone here will get to the bottom of it. In that planning he can do and say things prior to the offence which will give him a get out of jail free card later if his offence gets exposed or the target woman overtly resists his abuse. A former minister of mine would give the teenage girl side hugs, which put his hand in a place it shouldnt have been. That is common respect for other people. Nothing more. Just think what you could do with a well placed suggestion after taking Ambien. Plausible deniability for Bill. Good point. Ill assume you mean well and are somewhere back in that stage where youre still denying. Thats how this tends to work. @ okrapod: And I promise: NO ONE was ever saved, in all history, because of eloquence. Are Lynn and Bill Hybels still married? The news of the divorce came as a shock to many, as the couple had always seemed to have a strong and healthy relationship. Instead, these women were displayed like his leadership trophies. Like you, quite a few of us have spent years studying it deeply. (Big clue there, folks) And people will do that by making the others, worse. As a consequence, I would urge caution in using thw word heresy with respect to this particular topic. I know of one drawing up plans for an old fashioned Chapel complete with a steeple to put on their campus for those who prefer smaller churches. Eloquence is a gift from God, but it is only the Holy Spirit working through the folly of proclaiming Christ crucified that ever won a single soul. Lengthy quotes rarely get read and can be annoying. For you cross land and sea to make a single convert, only to turn him into twice the Child of Hell as yourselves! I have recently become Lutheran. Now the manipulation continues as the abused who have raised their voices are abused yet again. It works but is it the faith? This is about strange behavior which was tolerated because one guy knew how to build a church and bring in money. unteachable. I have other views about resigning rock star pastors but wont go into it now. For the whole world-system, based as it is on mens primitive desires, their greedy ambitions and the glamour of all that they think splendid, is not derived from the Father at all, but from the world itself. (1 John 2:16 Phillips), And then theres this: Global Leadership huh Bill ? For many years, they were THE place when on job hunt. Right. So your mind overrides your gut. Please stop reporting about Jodis letter. We have preached a get of jail free gospel of buy the ticket and everything is as if it never happened. @ okrapod: It all led me to focus on several things with the kids:. A high five or handshake can do the same. @ Barbara Roberts: Things add up all too well, sadly. The only thing you can blame other people for is making his deception known. Long after no one can remember Willow Creek and the building is long gone, Jesus will still be Lord. But I have not noticed any hugging at the hospital or at any doctors or dentists office. i can not think of any good reason the pastor would want that! . During that meeting, an Elder told a WCA Board member that Willow Creek had no document retention policy. This was the first time either Board had heard about this arrangement, but both of these women told us separately that Bill had told them about this special arrangement years prior. Tried to handle it internally. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. When we finally did start talking, everyone called us liars. Marquet changed the Leader-Follower traditional naval paradigm to Leader-Allocate Control, resulting in success for all. So, Am I over thinking it?, one wonders. there will be a pendulum swing away from megachurches. Willow is no exception. Your boss? They are pits of mass deception and subterfuge. And its worse for Christian rocks stars, because nobody spiritualizes your regular rock band, and expects them to be perfect. Shauna (Hybels) met her husband at Willow Creek before they went to Mars Hill and joined Rob Bells staff. And jet setting. Tysvm Dee. Bill Hybels has stepped down. Yes, the ambien thing really bugs me. And Im 49, a loudmouth, professionally trained in safeguarding& so on. Its the evil person who masquerades as a good person. Given the complexity and amount of ongoing business involved in a multi-million-dollar, multi-campus enterprise, I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. Anybody who doesnt respect your boundaries, whatever they are, is suspect. Mistletoe killing an oak, And his successor (and successors drinking buddies/dudebros) ended up causing a civil war that broke the kingdom apart. Has anyone complained about inappropriate behavior from John Ortberg? Either way, doesnt matter. No worries. You had a bad leader, and a bunch of elders who were unwilling to accept that, and call him on it. No one knows. @ Davis and Natasha: The church isnt being destroyed. Jesus is our model of leadership. Thats why it cant be measured in terms of numbers, and in the case of Graham and Hybels are likely massively inflated anyway, and again, they dont get the numbers credit in any event, because its not that simple, its an enormously complex process that leads anyone to this or that place where they hear a message that the Holy Spirit uses to tip them over the fence. Jodi may want to keep her resume refreshed. Followed by the disciples, who never promoted themselves, built buildings, staged shows, had followers, had a staff. As we got up to leave at the end of the evening Bill said to me in front of the group, Nancy why dont you stay for a couple of minutes for us to discuss your ministry work? I immediately looked at the others for how I should respond and one of them smiled and said, Okay, see you in the morning.. Sometimes you have to look into the darkness in order to see that God is still present and at work. How to build a corporation in 5 easy steps. If there is anything we can do to be of further support, do not hesitate to let us know! There will be a full court press to save Hybels legacy. But is that truthful? Lynne Hybels was born on 21st November 1951. Why it was Bill Hybels! By . The first half of the book, written by Lynne Hybels, explores the early years of Willow Creek and the personal accounts behind one of this century's most . I think thats true for some and not others. This is VERY common. The door was open. On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. Shameful! Was it addressed and ignored by the elders? I leave all matters of *who is and who is not a real Christian* In the capable hands of the One who has a higher pay grade. Now, if we mean that believers at Willow Creek (or outside of it) will grapple with Mr Hybels and the Elders sins in these matters as they themselves become more sanctified, I can see that perspective. What a biblically ignorant person you are, Brad. If any Pastor asked me to have a private, evening chat about leadership I would have looked like a leaf trembling in the wind. I pity you if thats the case. Remember Bill hybels stepped down. If you want to highlight, in every comment, this is not your blog. Same church where Hybels daughter worked (PR for Bell) and met her husband who was Minister of Music, now in charge of music for Willow Creek. I read it that Jesus was doing the moderating. To me (and probably to a lot of jurors), timely Disappearing of Evidence = ADMISSION OF GUILT. He pulled me aside and asked me if anything had happened. The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher. How many times do you think it needs to be posted? The Gospels that I read portray a Jesus that constainly questioned the established and told parables about what is moral that makes you walk away and think. Ive learned how to see the tactics of abusers because Ive been listening to the victims of domestic abuse for years, am a survivor of CSA and DV and spiritual abuse myself plus Ive read many of the statements which perps make when their sins are called out and exposed. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. Ok, gotcha. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. It is a sad day for others in a position of leadership at Willow Creek to have been slow to address this and take definitive steps against it early on! Interesting, as it goes after comments (he said bad words) and some situations, offering a perspective, all engineered to shape the perspective regarding Hybels. The women will be able to see the other side of things. https://futuristguymedia.wordpress.com/pyramid-of-abuse-and-culpability-complicity/. Come Lord Jesus! Jesus wins. Hybels either is, or is not, rightly accused. But Moses said to the LORD, Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue. 11 Then the LORD said to him, Who has made mans mouth? Mary, I am going to assume that you have not been well taught on the subject of judgement. Ive worked with men for over 40 years in business. Whether anyone associated with any of his accusers is a jerk or not, I fail to see the pointunless, of course, the point is to smear whoever accuses him so that people will think twice before bringing forth any more stories. Bob Buckner. . Years ago, as a 23 yr. old a classroom assistant for a public high school in southern cali my boss wisely told me 1. And Shame on all who participated in this. toward a fellow parishioner or perhaps esteemed clergyman?). It is about following a Rabbi who was despised and mocked and sent to the Cross. No wonder you have no qualms about slamming the Church, the bride of Christ. I found Jodie Walle comments very interesting, and did help me to understand the culture. I hope you are right about this. Such a horror of more revictimization. She bears serious emotional scars to this day, several decades later. This is largely Christianese. Someday you may well find out what a fool you have been. LOL. Paul spoke up, and evidently appropriate action was taken, for which the Church at large benefitted. 1 kiss No quid pro quo to substantiate. They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: But telling someone immediately might be crucial in the future. !) called Give Me That Christian Side Hug went near-viral. I do believe that there exist genuine sexual perverts, but we err when we naively believe that all who abuse particularly those in positions of power and authority who systematically abuse are merely acting out sexual impulses. Im thankful they embraced egalitarianism and led the way with women in leadership. Very sad indeed. Why the need to put pastors in a special untouchable category? Amen! Some until their death beds. She also questioned her own judgment in whether he was actually being inappropriate. Where is the scribe? It is easy for me to be critical (it may be my spiritual gift) but I do join with Dee in praying for the church. Know who you are. I have yet to ask these people what they think of all this. In April 2018, when Bill Hybels' scandal got out, John Ortberg turned on his former master . Personally I was more offended by Wailing Wall-Satanic ritual connection. The Devil is destroying yet another church. Judging Others Not surprising that you are getting off-colored comments from some WC members. Being gracious, forbearing people who do not want to hold our pastor to the standard of perfection, we persuade ourselves that we misread the situation, misunderstood the words, are making too big a deal of silly things, and so on. What shes done more than anything is reveal that Willow Creek had/has a culture and work environment that is not guided or governed by wise, common-sense policies or practices for accountabilityespecially when it came to male-female relationships. I knew all this stuff from my secular org development career but did not transfer it to the church setting right way. The kids tried to sue the board to no avail. My professional organization will not do that In fact, we are specifically instructed how to do email when legally sensitive information is invloved. After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. Hybels appears to be trying to fade off into the sunset now. I think Hybels and Billy Graham lost their beliefs somewhere along the way. Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Pingback: Some Thoughts on Supposedly Feminist Men Who Reportedly Abuse/Harass Women | futuristguy. If the situation at the top remains insular, one doesnt find out what friendly financial terms are struck, and before you know it, the heat dies down and the PayPal accounts go live for those not of retirement age, and the book deals resume for them as well as the retirees. They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. Yeah, right. How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? ISBN13: 9780310533719 Release Date: June 1993 Publisher: Zondervan Length: 240 Pages Weight: 0.40 lbs. . I have seen it for over 20 years. Even the word Unity really means conformity. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+5&version=NIV, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers eye. The entire Gospel is predicated on the fact that we are sinners and that we are going to be sinners until we go home. From the website, its all sunshine and lollipops but the mask is really starting to slip. This rodent by the name of Roy teaches a better-sex class for males and is the best lover shes ever had. Even then, she was ashamed about what happened to her, as if it was her fault. Women get to decide if they want to be touched or not, and oh he did not mean anything by should never even have to be brought into play-in the workplace. some Rabbi from Nazareth. You make a valid point, ishy. Lynne Hybels did not respond to messages seeking comment. Rob Bells questioning of Hell has earned him a spot on the heresy list. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. But worse. Her pastor said that her body belonged to her husband and he could do whatever he wanted to do. There is really not a comparison to what the two men did. Me too. Because his REAL Personal LORD and Savior (PASTOR Hybels) is getting Blasphemed. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. Paint her as crazy, vindictive, or loose. It never ceases to amaze me that the Pew sitters continue on without ever demanding to see a detailed budget. I was extremely uncomfortable with Hybels repeatedly reminding the church he was the one leading the charge to empower women. I do. I was extremely uncomfortable with Hybels repeatedly reminding the church he was the one leading the charge to empower women. My heart goes out to you, all of you, by coming forward you have contributed to breaking this cycle of abuse. It creates an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance. I recognized something was wrong with that, but for various reasons, didnt quite make the connection. God is not in the business of secretly brainwashing and subtly mind controlling people. WTF? Bill Hybels has stepped down. Not every Christian is called to be an evangelist, but every Christian should have a heart for the lost. Hybels, of Barrington, is married to Willow Creek senior pastor and founder Bill Hybels.Lynne Hybels . Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. Read the Bible Dee. Hybels was slated to retire from his position at Willow Creek in October 2018; however, he resigned in April 2018 after allegations of sexual misconduct were made against him. I remember a similar excuse well stated by Flip Wilson The devil made me do it., No wonder you have no qualms about slamming the Church, the bride of Christ, I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ.*. The next morning, Bill and I were the first ones at breakfast in the hotel. Very sad. Its what someone mentioned in another thread about 75% of people go along with whatever to be accepted. That attitude was a LOT more prevalent than people think. Now its over. The church Elders allowed Bill to stay in an unsupervised counseling relationship with her, while neither her husband nor Bill's wife was made aware of the situation. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. The worst that often has happened is some vague mumbled half-apology or copping to a general misunderstanding. 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