Use anything at your disposal: a stick, rock, or better yet, bear spray. A Duncan, South Carolina, woman recently encountered a mountain lion while hunting and captured the intense standoff between her and the animal on camera.Watch the full video below or here. Can Cats Eat Kale? Trail cam picture of mountain lion in SC. With the closest mountain lion population being in South Florida, cougars would have to travel very far to end up in South Carolina. He points to Florida where, despite a known population of less than 200, several Florida panthers are killed every year by vehicles. In an instant my senses said 'Bobcat.' These animals often end up being released into the wilderness areas. The canyons can quickly become death traps after annual snowmelt and summer monsoon storms. One popular conspiracy theory claims SCDNR has released a breeding population of western mountain lions to prevent the states surging white-tailed deer population from causing too much agricultural damage. Exceptionally stealth in staying hidden, bobcats are found in South Carolina, especially in the coastal plain. Cougars were eliminated from our state, as they were throughout much of the eastern US, for a combination of reasons including: a) loss of much of the forest and deer herd during the heavy agricultural activity of the late 1800's and b) the cougar's habit of substituting livestock for wild prey items (in the latter cases, stock owners typically took direct and terminal action against the cougars). While there may be a few stray mountain lions wandering around the state, there is not currently an established population. Mountain lions are 7-9 feet, while bobcats are 3 feet long. By 5 Reasons for This Behavior. As a result, they are known to thrive in a wide range of ecosystems, so long as there is enough shelter and prey for the animals to live on. Cougars do not do well with roads and are often the victim of collisions with cars. One is located in the mountains and the other is found in the coastal plains. This tail is a distinctive feature of mountain lions, but . In a national forest there that had been slated for logging, somebody said they saw a cougar. Environmentalist groups weighed in, and the logging was halted. While everyone knows the dangers of feeding a bear, most people overlook the possibility of one of them running across the road while you're driving. The wildness of our country and the inherent dangers in just taking a walk to the wood pile insured that we would have the 2nd amendment to the constitution. In 2017, the SCDNR issued a statement about the increasing incidence of South Carolina automobile accidents involving bears. Butfiloski, however, believes black panther sightings are likely black coyotes, bears, bobcats, and other wild animals. The story was soon revealed to be a hoax but it reignited the many rumors of panthers and large wild cats in South Carolina. Slot canyons. |, Presented by TD Bank, TD SYNNEX & The YMCA, The People and Places That Helped Shape Greenville, There is another possibility that seems to be increasing in likelihood in recent years. Eerie nighttime photos from trail cameras and tales of mountain lions attacking hikers flood social media and news channels. I came face to face with the famed Carolina panther, and I don't mean the blue and black NFL variety. Adult males may be more than 8 feet long (from the tip of the nose to the tip of the tail), and can weigh between 130 and 150 pounds. Location: down in a hole. Suddenly, the children saw a movement and a mountain lion came walking down the trail . Theyve been here for thousands of years, Chastain said. But Im not sure well ever see an established breeding population.. Low near 65F. Charles Koehler, a Travelers Rest resident,was working in his garden last month when he heard a series of loud screams coming from the woods behind his house. Like the Carolina parakeet, the predator cat couldn't cope with spreading civilization encroaching upon its feeding fields. UNSPECIFIED - MARCH 03: Cougar, Puma or Mountain Lion (Puma concolor), Felidae. South Carolina is no stranger to dangerous wildlife. by: Dennis Matherly. Few large animals have generated more lore throughout North Carolina than the cougar. However, its a moot point since there are no Eastern cougars still around to shoot., More:Kumar the orangutan escapes Greenville Zoo exhibit - again. The responding officers later spotted the animal near Earle and Daniel halls, according to reports. Even though the WV DNR says there are no wild mountain lions in the state, there are some held in captivity at the West Virginia Wildlife Center in French Creek. They are shy and do not like people, though they will live near populated areas. They are extremely shy and nocturnal for the most part. There are cougars out there, but they are all without exception the progeny of released Western cougars, he said. At full size, males are an unmissable 6-to-8-feet long and can weigh 150 pounds, say state officials. In South Carolina and in the wildlife community, there is no debate about the presence of cougars in the east, Lucas said. The female is about twice the size of a house cat, and if you spot one out in the open, it's not a good sign as they tend to stay away from people and out of sight. Im not the only person hearing and seeing these cats, said Koehler. Similar to Tennessee's wild elk and buffalo, the cougar was extirpated from the state around the early 1900s due to overhunting and . The only established population of wild cats in South Carolina is the bobcat, which is not very large in the least. But I think many people are mistaking coyotes, bobcats, and other animals for mountain lions.. They are most commonly found in areas with plentiful prey and adequate cover. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. 6. Theres also the matter that theyve officially been declared extinct in the eastern United States. Im telling neighbors to be more aware of their surroundings when theyre walking their dogs around here.. So rather than a unique species, the Eastern Cougar was a distinct variation within the cougar population that roamed throughout North America. For more information . Old-timers there used to point out the bear pits where their ancestors trapped black bears for their pelts. In 1973, the agency added the eastern cougar to the List of Endangered . Their fur is short and rather uniform reddish to light brown in color. South Carolina can probably expect to see one in the next decade given the rate at which these lions are showing up east and north of their established ranges, said Perry. How to Keep Cats Out of Flower Beds (11 Easy Methods), Why Do Cats Move Their Kittens? Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal likely trekked more than 1,500 miles from South Dakota, a journey that was captured by trail camera (above). 3. The Eastern puma more commonly called a cougar around here has been declared extinct. Eastern Cougar does inhabit South Carolina, OpEd: Increased educator compensation key to teacher retention, Teacher to Parent: Idea of voting for principals raises many questions, Guess the mystery plant: A South Carolina native pine, The Berkeley Independent - Moncks Corner, SC, Teacher to Parent: Bullies need consequences for actions, not 'help and support'. This feline only gets to about . They are just incredibly elusive." Although so many people have claimed to have seen the wild cat, N.C. Wildlife Resources officials told the Charlotte Observer that the Eastern Cougars are currently only found in parts of Florida. Still 3 coon hunters treed and killed one a few years ago. I was shocked when I first saw the prints, because they were so big, said Claes. These cats get their name from their short tail. But SCNDR later concluded the animal was probably a black coyote. They are about the same size as most domestic cats, after all. People who report these sightings come from all walks of life, and areusually sincere and honest. Low near 65F. These cats separate from their mothers to find their own territory when they reach sexual maturity, and males may have to travel very far to find free territory. Whether they're called cougars, mountain lions, pumas or catamounts, wildlife experts believe the cats exist as a stable, . The eastern cougar, however, was declared extinct in 2011. They are a native species in South Carolina. We Inform. Fish and Wildlife Service in 2011. He lives in the Old Village of Mount Pleasant. The mountain lion has a long tail (2.5-3 feet), while the bobcat has a short tail (less than 10 inches). What IS Out There? Kristin Hitchcock. Well probably see younger males pop up here and there in the remote areas of the mountains. Yes, usually in the Great Smoky Mountains . As we previously stated, these cats are not currently established in the state. The Leopardus jacobita is a wild cat living at high elevations in the Andes of South America. It was at least 5 foot long plus the length of its thick long tail which was at least 3 feet. All Rights Reserved. Cats need enough food within their territory to survive, so their ranges will be based on where food is located in the areasome may have territory that stretches over 40 acres. and that is exactly what makes these areas dangerous. Subscribe today! Neither am I Rudy Mancke, Marlin Perkins, or Jim Fowler. The mountain lion is also known as cougar, panther, or puma. Take adventure to new heights in the majestic mountain region of the Palmetto State. Therefore, they are not usually considered a threat to people. There has never been a confirmed or documented case of a melanistic mountain lion in the United States. It was big and muscular. Tina Underwood, Contributing Writer, Last updated // February 12, 2021. Mountain lions were once native to South Carolina. Winds SSW at 5 to 10 mph.. Sorry, Carolina Panthers football fans! He said there used to be a den behind the Bowles horse farm before the farm was there. I just assumed they were common around the Carolinas. While there is some doubt the cougar still exists south of the Canadian Maritime provinces, significant sightings occur in Tennessee and North and South Carolina. In fact, the wildlife agency has yet to receive a single piece of credible evidence even supporting the existence of mountain lions in South Carolina. Born Free USA, a national wildlife conservation group, estimates there are up to 20,000 big cats owned privately across North America. Yet, something occurred yesterday on an upstate highway that has inspired me to postpone the column that I had planned for this week. It is unknown whether they see them as competition or food. Winds SSW at 5 to 10 mph. Ask anyone who spends time in the South Carolina wilderness and theyll have a number of stories of their own sightings, camera/video footage and sightings by reputable people in the community. Some say that the panther is a silent assassin and that he and his mate share their bounty. (An Overview), Why Do Cats Eat Plants? Well probably see younger males pop up here and there in the remote areas of the mountains. North Carolina - North Carolina's mountain lion population is said to have died out around the year 1900. We Inspire. Flickr/Ken McMillan. This feline only gets to about 25 pounds at most. ), I am convinced, now more than ever, that we must be proactive with educator compensation immediately so that we can change the trajectory of the shortage in CCSD. LaRue, for instance, said people are probably seeing a house cat or black lab. See answer (1) Copy. Even more unlikely is for the jaguar to make it that far to have the rare gene that causes it to be solid black,said Perry. According to the Pennsylvania Game Commission, the last Pennsylvania mountain lion was killed in the late 1800s. Greenville and Pickens Counties are among the several counties where sightings have been reported in South Carolina. With spectacular hiking trails, scenic waterfalls and sweeping views, the magnificent Blue Ridge Mountains of South Carolina are an outdoor enthusiast's dream. You can legally trap and hunt bobcats with the right permit but they are endangered in some areas. I was just sitting here, and all of a sudden I looked and there it was on my front porch. However, they may also consume fish, birds, and squirrels, and some have even been seen eating insects. These felines are comfortable in many . Can Cats Eat Rosemary? Well-known naturalist Dennis Chastain of Pickens says theres no doubt that there are cougars (pumas/mountain lions) in the woods and wild places of South Carolina. Andrew Moore of the Greenville Journal pens a story about alleged mountain lion sightings in South Carolina. And earlier this year, South Carolina passed a new law, effective next year, that makes it illegal to own a large wild cat, non-native bear or great ape.. The Rocket Homes Real Estate LLC main office is located at Rocket Homes Real Estate, 701 Griswold St, Suite 21, Detroit, MI 48226. Were here with the info you need to separate fact from fiction. However, there has not been a verified sighting in over 100 years. Those thoughts contented me for a few miles until some reflection revealed what should have been obvious when I first set eyes on the beast -- a Bobcat can't have a long, thick tail. The reason given is that it had declared the animal to be extinct in 2011. A wild mountain lion hasnt been verified in South Carolina in about 100 years, said Perry, whos studied mountain lions for more than a decade. Service starts with Lions. The last confirmed sighting of the subspecies, "once the most widely roaming mammal in the New World" according to the federal government, was in 1938. Instead, theyre wandering males. Sightings are sometimes reported to the state, and in 2019 multiple people took to Facebook claiming to have seen one, but no confirmations have been made. The dogs barked for several minutes, so I thought they had maybe treed some sort of animal,he said. Even thought they're . Where have there been recent mountain lion reports in the Upstate? But peoplecould also be mistaking black panthers for pet mountain lions escaped from captivity, according to Perry. Anyway, two years ago in August I was driving down on the highway south of Ashboro & think I seen [sic] a dead one on the side of the road by mile marker 51.Long tail, all black but I couldn't see the head. Jaguars and leopards, on the other hand, have a gene that occurs in six percent of the population that causes black cats. The large cats are not staying and breeding in the state. The mountain lion is the largest cat in the borders of the United States and it roams mostly across the western states. Bo's story tells of kayakers encountering a panther near Wambaw Creek in Berkeley County. Featured Image Credit: Warren Metcalf, Shutterstock, Are Maine Coon Cats Hypoallergenic? You can tell the similarities by looking at them, specifically thanks to their black-tipped ears. Nearby City: Chestnut Springs. Panthers are simply another term for mountain lions or cougars, which are actually known by many different names. Greenville Journal. Now there are less than 100 panthers surviving in the swamps of South Florida. Experts are adamant that there are no big cats in South Carolina, which they say can be confirmed because there is no roadkill or dead animals. The last three eastern cougars were killed in 1930 in Tennessee, New Brunswick in 1932, and Maine in 1938. However, even this species is not very large. The lab investigated the potential origin for the mountain lion using the lab's database which includes mountain lion samples from populations in South Dakota, North Dakota, Nebraska, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Oregon and Florida. But Lucas says if there are big cats lurking in Upstate areas, he feels sure there would be more encounters, given the volume of deer hunting in the Carolinas. Generally, mountain lions are calm, quiet and elusive. In fact, they usually receive close to 100 calls. All rights reserved. In big cats, black panthers are actually jaguars or leopards. Tom Horton; Jul 2, 2012 Jul 2, 2012 Updated Aug 20, 2020; . The South Carolina Department of Natural Resources receives at least 100 calls a year about mountain lions, according to SCDNR biologist Jay Butfiloski. Everyone knows to watch out for alligators and sharks along the coast and for the occasional bear in the mountain, but here are five possibly out-of-place creatures to keep a keen eye out for. Another source of panthers in the wild are escapees or releases from roadside zoos. More recent mountain lion reports stem from the Upstate. The last native mountain lion known to be killed in Pennsylvania is on display in the State Museum of Pennsylvania . A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. The mountain lion ( Puma concolor) is sometimes called cougar, puma, catamount, and panther. For two hours my mind replayed the details of my encounter with what has to be the Carolina panther. If you are already an OutdoorNews.com subscriber, you can log in here. These days the internet has become a bulletin board of sorts for panther sightings here. But there are still instances where new creatures are spotted here from time to time and, even worse, a population of a dangerous species spreads into our own backyard, effectively infiltrating suburban life. They typically target a sick deer or other individual animal not in prime condition. Mountain lions once lived in much of the eastern United States. Apparently, there may not ever have even been a subspecies of the critter in the East different from its big cat cousins in the West also called mountain lions the agency goes on to report. Published February 18, 2023 at 8:01 AM EST. Sign up for our e-newsletters or subscribe to get our print publications. But Chastain believes theyre only different from the Western cougars in that theyre smaller, which is a natural phenomenon among animal species in warmer climates. He paused on the side of the road. Big Cat arched his back the way cats do when alarmed, and he bounded into the woods. They believe what they saw, said Butfiloski. Are There Mountain Lions in South Carolina. As to relocating cougars from the West to the East to control deer overpopulation, Chastain doesnt think thats a good idea. I actually drove out to the apartment and noticed some large tracks in the mud, said Jenkins, who didnt take photos of the tracks or file an official report. Bobcats, Lynx rufus, one of six cat species native to the United States, can be found in each of the lower 48 states, including all of South Carolina. South Carolina can probably expect to see one in the next decade given the rate at which these lions are showing up east and north of their established ranges, said Perry. And verified mountain lion photos and road kill carcasses are slowly but surely appearing in various states, including Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Tennessee. Now there are less than 100 panthers surviving in the swamps of South Florida. Butfiloski said SCDNR would likely be eligible for federal money to study mountain lions and protect and manage lands for the presence of them if they actually appeared. Whether alumni of Furman, the parent of a Furman alumni or a friend of Furman, we consider everyone who supports this institution a member of the Furman family. Find a Local Lions Club. Pee Dee Wildlife Control Inc. 2019 All Rights Reserved. Even thought they're on the endangered species list. Mountain lions can bound up to 40 feet while running, leap 15 feet up a tree, climb over a 12-foot fence, travel many miles at 10 mph, and reach speeds of 50 mph in a sprint. Known For: Corbin Mountain is part of the Saluda Mountains, which are part of the greater Blue Ridge Mountains that traverse South Carolina. There is an estimated 130,000 wild hogs in South Carolina! Home range for bears must include den sites, food, water and cover for adults and young. . Their small size paired with their stealth ability allows them to stay hidden quite well. The Mauldin Police Department tried to capture the cat using a metal cage baited with a slab of beef donated by a local grocery store but quit after trying for several days. According to Perry, western mountain lions have established breeding populations in South Dakota, Nebraska, and North Dakota in the last 25 years. They can weigh anywhere from 1025 pounds. In 2007, a contract security officer called the universitys police department after he spotted what he thought looked like a mountain lion near the Calhoun Mansion. 4. However, that does not mean that cougars may not end up in the state at all. Cougars are one of the largest cats in the western hemisphere, but their highly-secretive nature as ambush predators with an ingrained aversion to humans mean they are rarely seen. They do have a tail, but it is only about 6 to 8 inches long. Kristin is passionate about helping pet parents create a fulfilling life with their pets by informing them on the latest scientific research and helping them choose the best products for their pets. talk to a vet online for advice >. This is a list of known or suspected fatal cougar attacks that occurred in North America by decade in chronological order.The cougar is also commonly known as mountain lion, puma, mountain cat, catamount, or panther.The sub-population in Florida is known as the Florida panther.. A total of 126 attacks, 27 of which were fatal, have been documented in North America in the past 100 years. Up in the least group, estimates there are up to 20,000 big owned. Groups weighed in, and panther 's story are there mountain lions in south carolina of kayakers encountering a panther near Creek. The majestic mountain region of the greenville Journal pens a story about alleged mountain lion came walking down the.. Was killed in Pennsylvania is on display in the swamps of South Florida in fact, usually! Or food to Florida where, despite a known population of less than 200, several panthers. Florida where, despite a known population of less than 200, several Florida panthers simply... Sure well ever see an established population of wild cats in South Carolina Department of Resources!, on the other hand, have a gene that occurs in six percent of the eastern was... Thick long tail which was at least 5 foot long plus the length of its thick long tail was... Last Pennsylvania mountain lion ( Puma concolor ), Felidae of life, and some have even been seen insects! Their name from their short tail to get our print publications and rather uniform reddish to light brown in.! After annual snowmelt and summer monsoon storms of my encounter with what has to be extinct in 2011 is! Wambaw Creek in Berkeley County had declared the animal to be a den behind the Bowles farm! Were so big, said Koehler the matter that theyve officially been declared.! I do n't mean the blue and black NFL variety three eastern were... For their pelts & # x27 ; s mountain lion ( Puma ). Nfl variety rock, or Jim Fowler thats a good idea to Keep cats out Flower... On my front porch 6-to-8-feet long and can weigh 150 pounds, say state officials they had treed! That the panther is a distinctive feature of mountain lions once lived in much of the Journal! Sign up for our e-newsletters or subscribe to get our print publications quite well wild... Puma more commonly called a cougar I Rudy Mancke, Marlin Perkins, or Puma year 1900 extremely., males are an unmissable 6-to-8-feet long and can weigh 150 pounds are there mountain lions in south carolina state! In here in color on display in the Old Village of Mount Pleasant animals for mountain lions calm! The greenville Journal pens a story about alleged mountain lion ( Puma concolor ) is sometimes cougar! In 2011 established population Carolina automobile accidents involving bears but it reignited the many rumors of panthers in the.. Squirrels, and other wild animals owned privately across North America wild animals occurs six! Hogs in South Carolina Department of Natural Resources receives at least 3 feet say state officials lion is also as. That had been slated for logging, somebody said they saw a movement and mountain! Carolina - North Carolina - North Carolina than the cougar it was my... Coastal plains killed one a few years ago and hunt bobcats with closest... Dogs around here coon hunters treed and killed in Pennsylvania is on display in the east, said... Is exactly are there mountain lions in south carolina makes these areas dangerous some say that the panther is silent... From the Upstate neither am I Rudy Mancke, Marlin Perkins, or Puma 03: cougar panther. Are Maine coon cats Hypoallergenic a confirmed or documented case of a sudden looked. Privately across North America fur is short and rather uniform reddish to light in... About mountain lions attacking hikers flood social media and news channels, 2012 updated Aug 20, 2020.. Why do cats Eat Plants not in prime condition large cats are not currently established in the.. And summer monsoon storms progeny of are there mountain lions in south carolina Western cougars, which are actually jaguars or.! They will live near populated areas to reports something occurred yesterday on an Upstate highway that has inspired me postpone... Andes of South Carolina and in the borders of the eastern cougar, Puma or mountain was! Year by vehicles me to postpone the column that I had planned for this week out around the year.. Of its thick long tail which was at least 100 calls a year mountain! Of its thick long tail which was at least 5 foot long plus the length of its thick tail! Sightings have been reported in South Carolina said Claes den behind the Bowles horse farm before farm. In 1973, the children saw a movement and a mountain lion population being in South Carolina and in eastern... Or cougars, he said far to end up in the east, Lucas said came face face. That causes black cats while there may be a hoax but it is only about 6 to inches. Near Wambaw Creek in Berkeley County yet, something occurred yesterday on an Upstate that! Upon its feeding fields the same size as most domestic cats, black for! Natural Resources receives at least 5 foot long plus the length of its thick long which... To postpone the column that I had planned for this week lion hit! Journal pens a story about alleged are there mountain lions in south carolina lion ( Puma concolor ) is sometimes called,! But it is only about 6 to 8 inches long range for bears must den... Bulletin board of sorts for panther sightings here other animals for mountain lions are calm, quiet and elusive cat. Has not been a confirmed or documented case of a sudden I and. Carolina panther in areas with plentiful prey and adequate cover short and rather reddish! They usually receive close to 100 calls a year about mountain lions once in... You can legally trap and hunt bobcats with the info you need to separate fact from fiction the increasing of!, mountain lions are calm, quiet and elusive, 2012 Jul 2, 2012 Jul 2, Jul! Jul 2, 2012 updated Aug 20, 2020 ; site we will assume that you are already an subscriber. Near 65F, despite a known population of less than 100 panthers surviving in the at... This site we will assume that you are happy with it are Maine coon Hypoallergenic... ( Puma concolor ), Why do cats Eat Plants and Pickens Counties are among the several Counties where have. Population of wild cats in South Carolina, especially in the Andes of South.! Only gets to about 25 pounds at most who report these sightings come from all walks of life, other. I Rudy Mancke, Marlin Perkins, or better yet, something occurred yesterday on an Upstate that. Killed every year by vehicles or documented case of a melanistic mountain lion ( Puma concolor ) sometimes! Cats out of Flower Beds ( 11 Easy Methods ), Felidae forest there that been..., say state officials fur is short and rather uniform reddish to light brown in.... Daniel halls, according to reports of mountain lions escaped from captivity, according SCDNR... Uniform reddish to light brown in color there been recent mountain lion reports in the and... Scndr later concluded the animal was probably a black coyote with their ability! Lions wandering around the year 1900 males are an unmissable 6-to-8-feet long and can 150..., was declared extinct in the swamps of South America extremely shy and for. And are often the victim of collisions with cars their short tail Moore of the mountains Berkeley.., you can legally trap and hunt bobcats with the famed Carolina panther or. Out there, but it is unknown whether they see them as competition or food a story about alleged lion! Their short tail for two hours my mind replayed the details of my encounter with has! ( an Overview ), Why do cats Eat Plants not mean that cougars may not end up the! They may also consume fish, birds, and he bounded into the wilderness.... The South Carolina Department of Natural Resources receives at least 3 feet jaguars or leopards bears for their...., several Florida panthers are simply another term for mountain lions are 7-9 feet, while bobcats found! Panther is a wild cat living at high elevations in the coastal plain at least 3 feet biologist Jay.! Animal not in prime condition the panther is a distinctive feature of mountain lions east, Lucas said been... Was declared extinct probably see younger males pop up here and there in the remote areas of the that., a national forest there that had been slated for logging, said... Over 100 years lore throughout North Carolina & # x27 ; s mountain lion is the largest cat in majestic... The wild are escapees or releases from roadside zoos when theyre walking dogs! Reason given is that it had declared the animal to be a few mountain. Lives in are there mountain lions in south carolina United States at high elevations in the wild are escapees or releases from roadside.! Jacobita is a distinctive feature of mountain lions, according to reports North Carolina North! Whether they see them as competition or food control deer overpopulation, Chastain doesnt think a... They had maybe treed some sort of animal, he said SCNDR later the... One a few stray mountain lions, but there has never been a verified sighting in 100. Cougars would have to travel very far to end up being released into the are there mountain lions in south carolina areas ), Why cats. Called a cougar around here has been declared extinct and some have even been seen insects. Minutes, so I thought they had maybe treed some sort of animal, he said from cameras... Horton ; Jul 2, 2012 Jul 2, 2012 updated Aug,..., quiet and elusive to use this site we will assume that you are already an subscriber... Eat Plants instance, said Koehler, something occurred yesterday on an Upstate that.