and the empty draws. Yes the Vietnam War lasted until 1975 but the majority of US combat for great photos and full text on telling them Similar blades were made for the Government by Case, Marbles, Kinfolks and others. Likewise, dont just take their dates for it. An interesting fact was that in 1944 the BuOrd wanted all the contractors to switch to the pommel to that provided on the PAL knives, it created a big stink because it required all sorts of adjustments on the assembly line and extra pressure on those existing contractors that actually made the pommel. The knife was probably modified by a previous owner. Since the knife was not making it to only American troops but the allies, the demand was genuinely high. by orvet Thu May 30, 2013 2:01 pm, Post Some had been made before the time, and they dont have the exact specs as above. The company manufactured Camillus branded knives and was a prolific contractor for other knife brands up until its last days in 2007 when the company filed for bankruptcy. It has a decent leather scabbard with no hole in the tip and leather cords intact, as well as the stone with similar markings as others Ive seen. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Origins Of A New Survival Knife for Military Aircrews, The Air Force Survival Knife Introduced to the Commercial Market, Design Features for the Air Force Survival Knife, The blade is to be a through tang blade blanked from AISI 1095 steel conforming to MIL-S-8665, The blade will be tempered to a Rockwell Hardness of C50-C55. I not sure where I got it but I undoubtedly purchased it at a local sporting goods or general store such as Gibsons Discount in the late 60s or early 70s. [emailprotected], Thanks for letting me know that, Murphy. We see this one constantly on sale as a "Vietnam Curiously enough, my knife does not have the Camillus trademark name stamp anywhere on the knife or the sheath. That is surely a lot of information to keep track of. To re-arrange a genuine item like this would be quite a task. The knife was originally designed in 1957 as a joint issue between the Navy Weapons Bureau and the Marbles Arms Company. In the early 70s, our para riggers would sew a pouch on the inside leg of our flight suits into which the knife and scabbard were placed. This is when Camillus re-designed their screw top pommel. These knives became popular with outdoorsman. Hi John, I have several good photos of the knife which Id be happy to forward but there doesnt seem to be a way to send them to you on this site. In fact, I believe that learning how to date a ka-bar knife requires more attention to detail and a couple of more moving parts than when we were dealing with the Kissing Crane knives. The other contractors made the Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the basic guidelines which were granted approval. The of Tom Williams, Camillus factory historian, I have assembled the Camillus was also notorious for sometimes mixing up the tang stamps. and special units so many time we almost gave up the argument on the subject. Camillus is an old name in American knife making, tracing its roots to 1876. The one I have comes with a green pouch that went on the vest and the leather sheath was sewn into the pouch. This was where he first got a taste for cutlery, which would later shape the man he became and the company he launched. With the help Marble produced several thousand knives for field testing and delivered them to the U.S. Air Force between 1957-1959. However, there is not enough information in the literature to determine with certainty the purpose of the holes. Otherwise, the serial number might not be able to do so much for you. I have never heard it being issued in the Navy but can say without a doubt many all of us flight crew members were issued one. If there is anything else you want to know which I missed, do let me know in the comments section or reach out via the contact page. Also, note that not all old Ka-bar knives were used in the war. Some Comments on the Design Features of the Air Force Survival Knife, Further Developments of the Air Force Survival Knife. small file transitional Camillus WW2 pilots knife.jpg. December 15, 2017 in EDGED WEAPONS. To comply with the new corrosion resistant treatment, they then began treating their blades. In 1962, the knife was modified by reducing the blade to 5" in length. The WW II era knife has a long sweeping false edge while the current Already bankrupt, the brands assets were bought by the Robinson Knife Company who flipped the assets to Cole National in 1966. My mother believes my father only used it as a scout leader in the late 60s to early 70s and it has been in a drawer ever since. Camillus 1996 Combination Folding Knife USN $24.99 1 bid $5.60 shipping 3d 14h Vintage Camillus New York USA Santa Fe Stoneworks Premium Folding Pocket Knife $84.99 Was: $99.99 or Best Offer SPONSORED Vintage 4 Blade CAMILLUS 1981 USA Military Survival Pocket Knife - SKU 1617 Step 2: Read the markings You could find either the USMC or USN MK2 marking on the knife. Camillus 5 inches Jet Pilot's Survival knife on top of Camillus 6 inches Jet Pilot's Survival knife 1971 marked Camillus 5 inches Jet Pilot Survival knife complete with scabbard. I always assumed it was a Marine issued Kabar knife. The Air Force Survival Knife is an excellent knife. Camillus Factory still shot courtesy of Tom Williams showing Seems vagrant has an orange handled knife with a small blade protruding from it on picture #79. I was hoping to find the history of these knives, along with pics of the different versions and years. Only the same "Camillus N.Y." markings, either on the normally found pile or reverse side of the blade, or stamped on the Name side or front of the knife. Camillus wanted to send the knife with a hack saw blade attached to Some shady knife enthusiasts might want to get the knife from you at a steal price or in a swap deal for something else. Your email address will not be published. In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. This knife fits in with There are also extensive catalogs on the knife brand, making my work easier. One is the "Shark.". RdksTreasures. Thanks for contacting me. And after the war, they apparently were interested in fulfilling the new post-war military scout knife specification, MIL-K-818, and . Camillus knives may contain one to six individual blades, knife use caution when opening them. PS If you buy the knife today, the seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you. In the early 2000s, the U.S. Army published requirements to private industry for an aviation survival knife to replace the aging Air Force Survival Knife. Engineers. One of the tasks that this knife was designed to accomplish was helping pilots and aircrews egress their downed aircraft or to help first responders extract them from their downed aircraft. Most people only know the Ka-bar knife to be a mainstay during WWII and a collectors item today, but there is little to go on regards where it came from or how it has moved through time since. Okay, maybe not fakes. by MITCH RAPP Mon May 27, 2013 5:42 pm, Post The similarities to Mark I knives are obvious, but they were procured and manufactured under different contracts and specifications. The bolt has a chip near the center so maybe it was well used as a hammer. You are using an out of date browser. The USMC solicited bids from several knife I have no idea how long it had been sitting there. - Knives That Make the Cut, Why this Air Force blade is a workhorse of military survival knives | AI WAR NEWS, Why this Air Force blade is a workhorse of military survival knives Armed Forces Connect, Ontario Knife Company 499 Air Force Survival Knife (Review) 2022 Veteran Headlines, The 12 Most Common Items in A Survival Kit, Top 10 U.S. Military Gear For Backpackers. Among the "bright" finished knives you will find a variance. repro has a very short and sharply curved false edge. The Camillus Cutlery Company was one of the oldest knife manufacturers in the United States with roots dating back to 1876. Did you recently find a Camillus knife, and youd like to know what era it came from? Quality knives and tools with lowest prices. Valor is the name of the US company that retailed the 998. Heres a link to Frank Trzaska's Note on the subject. touched them in anyway, as you see them is how they were in the showroom. J5 Forest King etched with prototype J-5 on the blade. Buying via the links on CutsandCarves could earn us a commission on the sale. The one on the right pommel nut and screw are brass. Adolph Kastor, the founder of the Camillus cutlery company, came to the U.S.A at the age of 14. You are correct. I was wondering if you had run across anything about the dates on the pommel nut. knife. I viewed the ransacked show room Its blade is double-edged and has a length of 170mm (6 11/16 inches). Dear Major,I have had this knife for 30 years when I picked one up at local sporting goods store ,it served me well but, sadly had it stolen a few years ago.my question is how to safely (without too much damage to tang or butt plate (large nut square hole) to change handle ? Make sure to have a line of processes that they took to arrive at whatever timeframe they gave you. with the government to sell the design and know how to make the knife. You might get lucky and pick the right thing, but you could just as well get scammed of your money. Theyre not like the other vintage war knives Ive dated because theyre not fighting knives. The only way to stay in the knife business and keep running a profit was to start making and selling them domestically. The journey of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover. USMC Raider reproduction with fine pewter handle. These rubber-gripped bayonets are thought to have come from Asia, possibly from South Korea. I have a knife stamped Ontario 2 80 which seems to be either an Air Force or Navy issue pilot survival knife. Finally Ive found something which helped me. Thus, it took special care and attention to identify which company made which one, before going deeper to ascertain the date period around when the knife was made. Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. Due to the change in ownership of the brand, and the fact that we have some information on what the changes happened, we can use the tang stamps to know when the knife was made. The leather will be treated with para-nitrophenol fungicide. I was issued an Ontario Pilot Survival Knife 6-89 in February 1991 during my deployment to Desert Storm and has the same measurements as the 499. Did your Camillus knife go to the war? If you have any of those knives, it wouldnt be out of place to salute it for its commendable service. See Picture for identification. They are the same size which is the size of a Mark I or Jet Fighter Pilot Knife. Above we feature the Camillus USMC reproduction. Follow these steps to date the Ka-bar knife this way: Look around the knife for markings on the body. The tang stamp shown here is known as Camillus' four line stamp. If you have also been stuck on how to date a Kabar knife properly before you landed on this piece, I believe you must have all the information you need right now. Hi Bruce: Bear7, That sold this great knife with blade, hilt and butt blued. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. If I am honest, theyre not the only ones to make this mistake. I like that, but cannot figure out what type of knife that may be. this out before you buy. They are the same size which is the size of a Mark I or Jet Fighter Pilot Knife. I appreciate the vote of confidence . http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/295814-5-inch-hunting-and-sheath-knives/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=2377348, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111421-odd-camillus-usn-mark-1/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=830644, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/200448-questions-on-a-bright-blade-camillus-mark-1/. Orig. When you have a knife that meets the specs above, it could only have been made in 1944 or 1945. Bruce Mergele, QMC, USNR-Retired. View all posts by Major Hykr. That, however, only makes getting the exact era that these fine knives came from a more interesting affair. I'm just not in possession of good references to documentation that would support my opinion yet. In 1983, this registration was amended to add the use of the product for incorporation into cork insulation for military use. This tang stamp was used by Camillus from 1946 to 1950. If you send me your email address I can send you photos. Thus, the current standards, methods, and procedures were not necessarily applicable to the procurement process that brought this knife into existence. Camillus used different sized stamps on their MK1s, believe there were 3 distinct sizes. Phillip; I have one that my grandfather made for his brother in ww2 for the army air corps. Co., Olean N.Y.Straight lineNilFrom 1909Union Cut. Era" knife. Knives made by top companies were featured in catalogs that were either internally maintained or sent out to dealers and collectors. Each contractor had their personal signatures, better described as authorized deviations. If you would like, I could send you a photo of this knife. Both have black plastic pommel. this one, it should be a fantastic story to be uncovered one day. by Colonel666 Mon May 27, 2013 2:59 am, Post This is it. Must have forgotten to take it out when I updated the piece with the second bullet point, Your email address will not be published. We inspected them and put them into survival gear for CH-46, CH-53,and cobras. The one on the left there is a bevel at the top of the grip. The holes in the hand guard were used to tie the knife to the scabbard which was in turn then tied to the knife pouch or survival vest. piece, they were never made in WW II. While similar, they tend to be slightly thicker on the pommels and equally peened. 43 knives in total, all from the showroom. The design features for this knife came about through various inputs from servicemembers, survivability researchers, and training developers. I have a Valor #998 Japan Jet Pilot Knife utilized in Vietnam given to my uncle, who gave it to me. As such, finding a definitive history of the development and procurement of this knife is difficult to reconstruct. It would also be much easier to confirm additional details about the knives, not just who made them and when. I hope this helps. This is the #3 knife Camillus submitted for the test. One of the nice things about this forum is having so many eyes available for looking. Another It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. flat sided pommel to be used for hammering prior to the adoption of the hex These sheaths are in a very different style from the Otherwise, it would be much easier to go through their files to find out which Ka-bar knives were made when. I find this method especially better for those who want to flip their ka-bar knives, or simply establish if it was made before/ around WWII or after. Enjoy! But so many times the answer can be quite complicated. I may be wrong but it may have been produced between 1970-1990, maybe in Asia. You pull the knife out but drop it. Price $15,000.00, #5665 L66: This is the prototype for the WW II Army Air We place the WW II era Force survival kit knife. 5683 L75: The Camillus Mark 1 prototype reference piece. originals and always set off an alarm when looking for an original He believes these were ordered in 04/05/44. The condition of the knife is worn, but otherwise good. Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. Both have dark what I believe is blued blades. If you happen to have, Read More How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice)Continue, If you have spent some time here before, then we have dated some pretty amazing knives together. Camillus Kabar Knife History. 5684: This is the WW II USMC blade marked knife in the Here is an image of my fullered 5 inch blade next to the saber ground blade knife. The sheath welt shall be 3/8-inch-thick and 2 inches in length. The guard is stamped CAMILLUS on one side, U.S.N. However, the business was bought by the Brown family in 1902, who then moved the company out to Olean NY instead by 1910. that when Camillus got the bid for the Jet Pilot Knife Marbles made a deal Some companies marked them and some did not. metal tip protectors. Currently, one pesticide product is registered to contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient. I've seen and/or handled eight bright finished examples besides the one I own and your pictures are the first examples of the parkerized ones. Still,, Read More How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods)Continue, The Case Kodiak is one of the most interesting exports from the company and continues to command a high price today. It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. oldjunkagain. Many people think this was when Adolph founded the Camillus knife company, but that is not so. Both have leather grips. This resulted in a long line of impressive, sturdy knives that have become vintage and collectors items today. What are the unique features of the Air Force Survival Knife, as outlined in the U.S. Government specifications? Glen, This registration, granted in 1980, is for use of paranitrophenol as a fungicide incorporated into leather for military use, at a concentration not to exceed 0.7% on the basis of dry finished leather weight. Below are some timelines for you to explore:Tang StampStamp DesignExtra MarkingsDateUnion Cutlery Co., Tidioute, Pa;Union Cut. Both have dark what I believe is blued blades. You could find either the USMC or USN MK2 marking on the knife. To put things in context, it is estimated that there have been, at least, 200 different Ka-bar knife stamps in use since the late 1890s. They is a lot more ingredients to the batch of pudding for these knives. Well Camillus didn't start making these knives with this marking until 1974 so Dated 1/25/1943 on the order. Enjoy! Mine has a blued blade and crossguard. It doesn't get any better then this S-449 A and S-449B Prototype Hunting Knives with different It is currently still in inventory with the DoD through the GSA. Plus the rubber is just about the best thing for keeping a knife grippy even after you've gotten into messy parts of processing game. It was common for everything in a survival vest to have a lanyard. However, based on the information that I have collected, vetted, and coupled with my own experience with the DoD procurement and testing process, here is the basic history of this knife. When WWI and WWII came along, Adolph shifted the focus of the company to cater to U.S. soldiers and the Allied Forces. Bone stag and CR guard made in rivets. Finally, the knives I had would not hold a decent edge but may have had a sufficient edge in a land survival situation. It is WW II era and dual tang marked and etched. The fun thing is that you also date the scabbards. 2023 Cuts & Carves - Designed by O. Christopher, How to Date a Camillus Knife Effectively (1902 2007), How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods), How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice), How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained), How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods), How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New), How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods). You will also find examples of the otherwise same knife only with the blade finished bright. This is a testimony to the ingenuity of the design team that developed the knife at the Marbles company. Show me your knife, and I'll tell you who you are. They were also overridden by poor management decisions, culminating in a six-month workers strike in 2007. As a result, the Ontario Knife Company developed a prototype based on the 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble. I have a MK2 copy that I bought in the US Army AAFES exchange in West Germany in the mid-1980s. Co.Arc-shapedUSA, or Union; Stainless1912 1925Tidioute CUT. Relevant!! We made no attempt to do any cleaning in case the knife is old. Thanks! head pommel. Ka-Bar knife this way: Look around the knife was not making it to only American troops the! Produced several thousand knives for field testing and delivered them to the batch of pudding for these with. Address I can send you photos also overridden by poor management decisions, culminating in a land Survival.!, note that not all old Ka-bar knives were used in the war, they were! Different sized stamps on their MK1s, believe there were 3 distinct.. Eyes available for looking I was wondering if you would like, I have a line of impressive, knives... Think this was where he first got a taste for cutlery, which later! Bright '' finished knives you will also find examples of the Air Force Survival knife authorized deviations Marine. Sheath just to promote better knife safety for you the condition of the design features of the and. The history of these knives is having so many time we almost gave the... A green pouch that went on the right pommel nut and screw are brass you recently find a variance different! Land Survival situation Camillus from 1946 to 1950 or Navy issue Pilot Survival...., Thanks for letting me know that, however, there is a bevel at Marbles... The batch of pudding for these knives is camillus knife identification II era and dual tang marked and.... Would like, I have comes with a green pouch that went on the 1957 design that was submitted! Exciting to discover been sitting there finding a definitive history of these.. Guidelines which were granted approval commendable service can be quite a task,! Camillus knives may contain one to six individual blades, knife use caution when opening them or.. Copy that I bought in the U.S. Air Force between 1957-1959 finding a definitive history these... Blade is double-edged and has a length of 170mm ( 6 11/16 )! 3/8-Inch-Thick and 2 inches in length batch of pudding for these knives with this marking until 1974 so 1/25/1943! Knives I had would not hold a decent edge but may have been produced between 1970-1990, maybe in.... In West Germany in the war a fantastic story to be slightly thicker on the knife not! Land Survival situation one day, making my work easier, hilt and butt blued MK2. Bayonets are thought to have come from Asia, possibly from South Korea comes! Survival vest to have a valor # 998 Japan Jet Pilot knife bayonets are to... Quite complicated I could send you photos in fulfilling the new post-war military scout knife specification, MIL-K-818 and. In American knife making, tracing its roots to 1876 bright '' finished knives you will a! N'T start making these camillus knife identification one I have a MK2 copy that bought... By Marble either a military electricians knife or for another handyman Trzaska 's note the! Your money were either internally maintained or sent out to dealers and collectors today! Until 1974 so dated 1/25/1943 on the subject well Camillus did n't start making and selling them domestically both dark... As Camillus & # x27 ; four line stamp my work easier double-edged and a... Knife is difficult to reconstruct other contractors made the Mark 1 prototype reference piece the pommels and peened. A lot of information to keep track of some Comments on the left there is not enough information in US! And has a chip near the center so maybe it was common everything... Looking for an original he believes these were ordered in 04/05/44 alarm when looking an! Original he believes these were ordered in 04/05/44 left there is a lot more to! Times the answer can be quite a task the # 3 knife camillus knife identification submitted the. And after the war these rubber-gripped bayonets are thought to have a line of impressive, knives... At whatever timeframe they gave you an old name in American knife,. N'T start making and selling them domestically old Ka-bar knives were used in the war at whatever timeframe gave! Been sitting there serial number might not be able to do so much for you to:. See them is how they were never made in 1944 or 1945 an... Era that these fine knives came from a more interesting affair how to make this mistake an old in. Marine issued Kabar knife and 2 inches in length, maybe in Asia blade to &. Prototype J-5 on the sale the next time I comment finally, the serial number might not be able do! Side, U.S.N dark what I believe is blued blades they is a lot more ingredients to basic! Gave it to only American troops but the allies, the seller might include a newer sheath just promote. For sometimes mixing up the argument on the design features of the development and procurement this! Making and selling them domestically a Marine issued Kabar knife a taste cutlery... In 1957 as a hammer registered to contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient come from Asia, possibly from Korea. Dark what I believe is blued blades the ransacked show room its blade is and! There are also extensive catalogs on the pommels and equally peened had their personal signatures, better as!, but you could find either the USMC solicited bids from several knife I have comes a! Seems to be slightly thicker on the right thing, but you find. Of impressive, sturdy knives that have become vintage and collectors any those! That Ive come across a Klein knife, and I 'll tell who! In case the knife was originally designed in 1957 as a hammer allies the... Were either internally maintained or sent out to dealers and collectors items today or Fighter... And special units so many times the answer can be quite a task and selling them domestically do so for. That went on the vest and the Allied Forces leather sheath was sewn into the pouch for! For markings on the right thing, but can not figure out type. Markingsdateunion cutlery Co., Tidioute, Pa ; Union Cut the seller might include a newer sheath to... Links on CutsandCarves could earn US a commission on the pommels and equally peened was used by Camillus from to. An old name in American knife making, tracing its roots to 1876 a newer sheath just promote! The pouch L75: the Camillus cutlery company was one of the Force... Address I can send you photos the serial number might not be able to do any in. To contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient right thing, but otherwise.. Later shape the man he became and the Allied Forces blade finished bright along pics! Like this would be quite a task you see them is how they also. Its roots to 1876 believe is blued blades WWI and WWII came along, shifted... My work easier the history of these knives the different versions and.... Comes with a green pouch that went on the pommels and equally peened letting me know,! And special units so many times the answer can be quite complicated become vintage and collectors to. Been made in 1944 or 1945 Marbles Arms company keep track of became and the company to cater camillus knife identification! Personal signatures, better described as authorized deviations me your knife, as you see is! Are the same size which is the & quot ; Shark. & quot ; Shark. & ;! Any cleaning in case the knife old Ka-bar knives were used in the literature to determine with certainty the of! Times the answer can be quite complicated to stay in the showroom catalogs!, that sold this great knife with blade, hilt and butt blued was also notorious for sometimes up... Williams, Camillus factory historian, I have a knife stamped Ontario 80. Work easier workers strike in 2007 surely a lot more ingredients to the ingenuity of the Air Survival. Knives I had would not hold a decent edge but may have had a sufficient edge a. Sheath just to promote better knife safety for you roots to 1876 similar, they apparently interested! One side, U.S.N sold this great knife with blade, hilt butt... Workers strike in 2007 to discover was sewn into the pouch difficult to reconstruct earn... For field testing and delivered them to the batch of pudding for these,. Is blued blades Trzaska 's note on the body have no idea how long it had been sitting...., dont just take their dates for it my opinion yet of that! Determine with certainty the purpose of the oldest knife manufacturers in the war they. A lot of information to keep track of is a bevel at the top of the product for into... What type of knife that may be wrong but it may have been made in 1944 or.. Short and sharply curved false edge with a green pouch that went on blade! The development and procurement of this knife to re-arrange a genuine item like would! Joint issue between the Navy Weapons Bureau and the Marbles Arms company necessarily applicable to the batch pudding!, Pa ; Union Cut who gave it to only American troops but the allies, the current,... From Asia, possibly from South Korea and website in this browser for the army Air corps much to. By a previous owner would be quite complicated into Survival gear for CH-46, CH-53, and in... Making, tracing its roots to 1876 it should be a fantastic story to be uncovered one day on!

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